Chaintech AV710 音效卡 Review --- 作者 Stephonovich

家用音響系統, 訊源、音響、家庭劇院、音響觀念等音響系統討論專區。

Chaintech AV710 音效卡 Review --- 作者 Stephonovich

文章MoLtoSoLo 發表於 週二 6月 15, 2004 10:36 am

這篇文章是原本刊在 Head-Fi 上的.
在經作者同意後, 我大略翻譯一下, 與各位分享.




Chiantech AV710


簡要的歷史

一直以來, 電腦音樂似乎被注定是糟糕透了。Creative的幾乎是唯一
低廉的選擇。小廠像是 Turtle Beach和 Hercules, 但是這些產品的
遊戲支持有待加強。

後來, M-AUDIO REVOLUTION出現在市場上。太棒了, 終於我們能
現在有低價的支援24/192 的產品 。 和 Creative 的產品比較起
來, 也許 M-Audio 沒有強大的遊戲支持, 但是對預算不多的
audiophile 來說, 這簡直是美夢成真。

然後 Chaintech AV-710 上市了。使用跟 Revo 一樣的Envy24HT
晶片, 支援24/192 , 7.1 聲道, 所有的一切只要非常低廉的價格。

Revo 使用Asahi Kasei AK4381 DAC, 但是AV-710 使用
Wolfson WM8728 。(注意這些兩個只適用於2 聲道狀態。環繞使
用比較差的晶片.)

比較兩者, AK4381 有108dB SNR, 而WM8728是106dB SNR。
我想這點差異很難在使用中發現兩個之間的區別. 不過一些比較挑剔
的人仍然覺得有差別。

他們是兩個都擁有 24/192的解碼能力芯片。不管怎麼看, 這個產
品都是夢想的成真。(按, 原本筆誤, 經網友天地指出後修改)

終於, 再也沒人能忽略低價並且高品質個人電腦音樂


圖檔

Specifications


Envy24HT-S Controller

Wolfson WM8728 24/192 DAC for 2-channel mode

Via VT1616 18/VSR (Variable Sample Rate) DAC for
Surround

7.1 Capable

Mic In/Line In/Surround Outs/Optical Out

Bundled with optical cable, drivers, WinDVD, and WinRip


OS 兼容性

OS 兼容性這是一個大問題, 並且我認為大部分的評論者都只專注於
Window的支援. 這張卡可以在Linux中使用。這裡有一些相當長的好
資訊包括所有跟 Linux有關的話題。

至於Macintosh 用戶, 抱歉, 您要自己幫您自己。Googling 沒有出現
任何東西。



音質

這才是重頭戲。

在我開始之前, 我要您知道這我個人的意見, IMO, YMMV 。

使用的設備是AV-710 (duh) 與JP3/4 jumpered 到1-2 (之後詳
述), 用高品質的後輸出, 通過一般地1/8"小頭, 接用AD832的CMoy
耳擴, 使用12v AC, 到HD 280 耳機. HD280 耳機使用了 800 小
時, 改了 “Blue tack Mod”.





低音

跟CMoy 一起用, 這個組合可以搖開您的頭。我知道HD 280 的低音
並不是很有名, 但是我可以跟任何人說, 20Hz 是完全沒有問題的。改
了 “Blue tack Mod”後, 低音跟中低音非常地棒。在德國EBM 團
Eisbrecher 有一些相當多的 Bass, 在這個搭配中展現無遺。



中音

Dream Theater 是一個很有名的 progressive rock/metal 團。他
們的音樂真是太棒了。James LaBrie 有相當富吸引力和強勁的人
聲。它是美妙地被確切地重現了, 沒有 clipping、尖銳, 或討厭的嘶嘶
聲。



高音

這是我唯一對這音效卡的抱怨; 在某些CD 中, 尤其是那些新的(2000
年後發行的), 偶爾鐃鈸, 吉他獨奏, 和一些歌手會有點尖銳。它經常不
發生, 但是它是那裡。因為只有新的 CD 會這樣, 所以我想這是現代
hyper-compression 技術的問題。Other than that, though, it
rocks. Marshall stack sound comes through loud and clear,
bells ring loud and clear, applause is sharp and crisp



我試聽的結果發現這張卡適合各種音樂。我試過了幾乎一切; Dream
Theater, Eisbrecher, Elton John, Metallica, Michael W. Smith
(his _Freedom_ symphony album) Pink Floyd, Radiohead,
Tool... 和更多更多。它雍容地處理所有的音樂風格。It can be
slow and soothing one second and suddenly jump into an
all out barrage on your senses. I was in awe just tonight
while listening to Dream Theater's track 'Disappear' off their
CD, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. I could hear individual
guitar strings being plucked as he strummed chords. The
vocals were crisp and well defined. It was one of those
moments where you just stop whatever you're doing and
sit back and marvel.



As with all things, there are things that can be tweaked.
The very first thing you should do is make sure you've
installed VIA's drivers, not Chaintech's, on the CD with the
card.

The 1.43d drivers seem to be the best as of now (May
2004), but be on the lookout for better ones. After you've
convinced Windows that you want these installed (not an
easy task sometimes), go into the Envy Audio Deck, click
on the Digital Out tab, and make sure the Enable Digital
Output box is checked. Then go down and check Enable
High Sample Rate box.



I mentioned changing jumpers around earlier; this is a good
start for actual mods. Look on the very upper left hand of
the card, to the right of the screw, where you'll
see 'JP3/JP3', and settings. Notice one says Line-Out, and
the other Speaker-Out. Now, we don't want things getting
amplified twice, do we? So, find JP3/4. Go over to the right
about an inch, to the jumper bank labelled Front Audio.
Now go down, and you'll see a chip marked U14.

Directly below this are the jumpers in question. Move both
of them over one notch, so they short pins one and two.
Congratulations, you just modded the card! Doesn't that
feel good? Now, these results have not been verified, but I
thought there was increased bass, for one, and an overall
tightening of the sound with this tweak. YMMV.



Also, you're going to want to get ASIO support enabled on
this card double-quick. Kernel Streaming is another option,
but I like having a known standard. So, how to accomplish
this? ASIO4All. Download the .zip (~80K), drop the .dll into
your %systemroot% folder, open your favorite audio
application, and choose ASIO as the output method. (you'll
have to have an ASIO plugin installed for your audio player
of choice already) Also of note, it's important to make sure
Wuschel's ASIO4All is the method selected. Then, open up
the ASIO4All control panel (should be a shortcut on the
desktop and in Start Menu) and start playing. You'll first
want to try the Direct DMA Buffer I/O method, but if that
fails, disable it, and start playing with buffer sizes. Also of
note, reduce the buffer size in your audio player to 0, and
let ASIO4All deal with that. The buffer size needed is likely
going to vary widely depending on your system
configuration. I'm running 1024/2, but that's just because I
got tired of occasional pops while launching an application. I
can have it down to around 500 if all I'm doing is listening
to music or browsing the internet, but launching anything
causes pops and crackles. For output options, you're going
to want to disable any resamplers you have running, as this
is going to output a bit-perfect 44.1KHz stream that
completely bypasses KMixer. Rejoice! Output bitdepth is up
to you, but might as well bring it up to 24 bit. Padding to
32 bit seems to work best with ASIO4All.



結語

聽過M-AUDIO REVOLUTION和Chaintech AV-710 的人都認為分
別相當的小, 大部份人都不會注意到這些差別。以價格來說, 您無法忽
略這張卡片。如果您還在猶豫關於個人電腦訊源, 試試看這張卡。

接上一台優良的耳擴, 輕鬆地一張一張地聽你喜歡的 CD。

然後, 當然, 您將升級到 EMU或RME, 然後接下來你就會開始動改良
的念頭了... 高度推薦。







http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75454

Chaintech AV-710 Review

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In response to Tuberoller's demand, er, plea for reviews, and plus the fact that the AV-710 is becoming quite popular, yet no reviews, I decided to write one. I'm quite pleased with mine, anyway. I blame all errors on the fact that I'm simultaneously studying the OSI Layers while writing this. With that said, let the fun begin...

Brief History

For the longest time, computer audio seemed to be doomed. Creative was pretty much the only available card without spending hundreds. Turtle Beach and Hercules were players, but small ones, and they didn't have the greatest game support. Then, along came the M-Audio Revolution. Great, people thought, now we can have 24/192 support for under $100. Sure, it didn't have the greatest game support compared to Creative's offerings, but for the audiophile on a budget, this was as as close to heaven as you could get. And then, the Chaintech AV-710 came out. Envy24HT based chip, the same as the Revo, 24/192 support, 7.1 card, and all for $25. The Revo uses a Asahi-Kasei AK4381 DAC, whereas the AV-710 uses a Wolfson WM8728. (Note these both only apply to 2-channel mode. The surrounds use lesser DACs) The AK4381 has a 108dB SNR, opposed to the WM8728's 106dB SNR. I highly doubt you'll notice any difference between these two, but still, for the anal amongst us, (GUILTY!) the difference is there. They are both 24/192 capable chips, however. In any case, this card was an answer to prayer. Finally, high quality PC audio was available to the masses, and with a price tag like that, no one could ignore it.


Specifications


Envy24HT-S Controller
Wolfson WM8728 24/192 DAC for 2-channel mode
Via VT1616 18/VSR (Variable Sample Rate) DAC for Surround
7.1 Capable
Mic In/Line In/Surround Outs/Optical Out
Bundled with optical cable, drivers, WinDVD, and WinRip


OS Compatibility


This is a big issue for many people here, and I think many times reviewers forget that not everyone uses Windows exclusively. No offense, of course, but hey, we are here:P That being said, this card can be used in Linux, from what I've read, using ALSA. This page has some good info on anything related to audio and Linux, but is quite long. Should answer any questions you have, though. Macintosh users, sorry, you're on your own. Googling didn't turn up anything.


Sound Quality


Ah, the one you've all been waiting for. Before I begin, I want you to know that is is all strictly subjective, IMO, YMMV. Equipment used was the AV-710 (duh) with JP3/4 jumpered to 1-2 (more on that later), running through the Rear Out with Hi-Rez mode enabled, through a fairly crappy/normal 1/8" mini-mini to an AD832AN-powered CMoy running off of 12v AC, to HD 280 Pros, well burned in (~800 hours as of May 2004), with the Blue Tack Mod applied. 280 bashers may now shut up


Bass

Combined with the CMoy amp, this thing will shake your head apart. I realize the 280s aren't known for their qualities, but I doubt anyone will argue that they go LOW. 20Hz is no problem for these. After Blue Tack, they'll pump out low and mid bass as pretty as you please. The German EBM band Eisbrecher has some pretty serious bass on their tracks, and it's reproduced beautifully.

Midrange

Dream Theater is a well-known progressive rock/metal band, and for good reason. Their music flat out rocks. James LaBrie has rather interesting and powerful vocals, with tons of midrange. It's reproduced beautifully clear here, with no signs of clipping, harshness, or sibilance.

Treble

This is my (and others) only beef with the card; with certain CDs, notably newer ones (2000s mostly), there is harshness occasionally on cymbals, guitar solos, and some vocalists. It doesn't happen often, but it is there. The fact that it happens mostly with newer CDs leads me to believe it's mostly due to the hyper-compression applied to modern
CDs. Other than that, though, it rocks. Marshall stack sound comes through loud and clear, bells ring loud and clear, applause is sharp and crisp.

Overall

The sound is tight, fast, and ready for any musical genre. I've thrown everything under the sun at this; Dream Theater, Eisbrecher, Elton John, Metallica, Michael W. Smith (his
_Freedom_ symphony album) Pink Floyd, Radiohead, Tool... the list goes on. It handles them all with grace and adapts to the musical style. It can be slow and soothing one second and
suddenly jump into an all out barrage on your senses. I was in awe just tonight while listening to Dream Theater's track 'Disappear' off their CD, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. I could hear individual guitar strings being plucked as he strummed chords.
The vocals were crisp and well defined. It was one of those moments where you just stop whatever you're doing and sit back and marvel.



Tweaks



As with all things, there are things that can be tweaked. The very first thing you should do is make sure you've installed VIA's drivers, not Chaintech's, on the CD with the card.
The 1.43d drivers seem to be the best as of now (May 2004), but be on the lookout for better ones. After you've convinced Windows that you want these installed (not an easy task sometimes), go into the Envy Audio Deck, click on the Digital Out tab, and make sure the Enable Digital Output box is checked. Then go down and check Enable High Sample Rate box.

I mentioned
changing jumpers around earlier; this is a good start for actual mods. Look on the very upper left hand of the card, to the right of the screw, where you'll see 'JP3/JP3', and settings. Notice one says Line-Out, and the other Speaker-Out. Now, we don't want things getting amplified twice, do we? So, find JP3/4. Go over to the right about an inch, to the jumper bank labelled Front Audio. Now go down, and you'll see a chip marked U14.
Directly below this are the jumpers in question. Move both of them over one notch, so they short pins one and two. Congratulations, you just modded the card! Doesn't that feel good? Now, these results have not been verified, but I thought there was increased bass, for one, and an overall tightening of the sound with this tweak. YMMV.

Also, you're going to want to get ASIO support enabled on this card double-quick. Kernel Streaming is another option, but I like having a known standard. So, how to accomplish this? ASIO4All. Download the .zip (~80K), drop the .dll into your %systemroot% folder, open your favorite audio application, and choose ASIO as the output method. (you'll have to have an ASIO plugin installed for your audio player of choice already) Also of note, it's important to make sure Wuschel's ASIO4All is the method selected. Then, open up the ASIO4All control panel (should be a shortcut on the desktop and in Start Menu) and start playing. You'll first want to try the Direct DMA Buffer I/O method, but if that fails, disable it, and start playing with buffer sizes. Also of note, reduce the buffer size in your audio player to 0, and let ASIO4All deal with that. The buffer size needed is likely going to vary widely depending on your system configuration. I'm running 1024/2, but that's just because I got tired of occasional pops while launching an application. I can have it down to around 500 if all I'm doing is listening to music or browsing the internet, but launching anything causes pops and crackles. For output options, you're going to want to disable any resamplers you have running, as this is going to output a bit-perfect 44.1KHz stream that completely bypasses KMixer. Rejoice! Output bitdepth is up to you, but might as well bring it up to 24 bit. Padding to 32 bit seems to work best with ASIO4All.

Finally, there have been a
few
threads about more in-depth modding. Everything from replacing op-amps and capacitors to cutting traces. I'm considering switching out some caps at some point, but you're completely on your own with this. Good luck.

Conclusion


People who've heard both the M-Audio Revolution and the Chaintech AV-710 say the differences, if any, are so slight that most people aren't going to notice them. For $25 as opposed to the Revo's $100 price tag, you can't ignore this card. If you're hesitant about PC audio, pick up this card. Hook up a nice amp, sit back, and go through a few of your favorite CDs. Then, of course, you'll upgrade to an Emu or RME, and then you'll mod
it...

Highly recommended.


(-:Stephonovich:-)
最後由 MoLtoSoLo 於 週二 6月 15, 2004 7:36 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
J@ck 將是我的新名字, 將於二月份新年後開始使用.
頭像
MoLtoSoLo
SR40
SR40
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週一 2月 10, 2003 11:30 am

文章天地 發表於 週二 6月 15, 2004 11:46 am

他們是兩個能 upsampling 到 24/192的芯片。不管怎麼看, 這個產
品都是夢想的成真。
這兩顆都是DAC CHIP,和UPSAMPLING有何干呢?
天地
SR40
SR40
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週四 2月 27, 2003 1:01 pm

文章balloon 發表於 週二 6月 15, 2004 5:13 pm

我想是M兄筆誤,原文指解碼能力。可利用CPU作非即時運算後存檔撥放。硬碟要夠大。
balloon
SR40
SR40
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週五 4月 16, 2004 9:14 am

文章MoLtoSoLo 發表於 週二 6月 15, 2004 7:31 pm

不好意思, 是本人筆誤.
原文
They are both 24/192 capable chips, however. In any case, this card was an answer to prayer.

原文悉指解碼能力, 謝謝指點錯誤.
(大概還有很多類似的錯誤, 包涵包涵)
J@ck 將是我的新名字, 將於二月份新年後開始使用.
頭像
MoLtoSoLo
SR40
SR40
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週一 2月 10, 2003 11:30 am

文章天地 發表於 週二 6月 15, 2004 9:34 pm

MA REVO7.1應該和我的AUREON 7.1 SPACE一樣用ENVY24HT,和ENVY24HT-S等級有差啊
我是認定HT-S等級是比較低的
天地
SR40
SR40
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週四 2月 27, 2003 1:01 pm

文章蘇子 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 1:31 am

小弟懂得非常少,
不過對此卡相當懷疑?
還請各位前輩指正

Envy 24 HT-S確實比Envy 24HT檔次來得低,
但這不是我所注意的地方,
因為Envy 24 HT-S確實也能做出音質不錯的卡,
像是TerraTec PHASE 22,
但是看到上面寫道Chiantech AV710用了VIA VT1616我會很吐血 :mad:
這是一顆評價很差的AC'97 Codec,
雖然Wolfson WM8728讓人流口水,
但是這張卡應該是逃不掉SRC的摧殘吧?

儘管用了由Wolfson WM8728所負責的兩聲道模式,
也用了foobar 2000的SSRC,
聲音可能還不錯聽,
但是這和M-AUDIO REVOLUTION 7.1基本上還是有等級的差距吧
蘇子
SR40
SR40
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週日 11月 16, 2003 2:56 am

文章viaviavia 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 1:41 am

我想請問一件事,SRC 能讓聲音爛到什麼程度?

我想請問當初一直說 SRC 有多可怕的人,給我測試數據跟
頻率圖表,既然你說爛,證明出來給大家看一下。 :D
討論音效卡改裝的網站

http://www.gen6991.idv.tw/
頭像
viaviavia
友站的站老大
友站的站老大
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週五 9月 12, 2003 4:46 am
來自: 高雄

文章MoLtoSoLo 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 2:01 am

Chaintech AV710 的 Driver 可以 bypass SRC, 不是問題.
J@ck 將是我的新名字, 將於二月份新年後開始使用.
頭像
MoLtoSoLo
SR40
SR40
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週一 2月 10, 2003 11:30 am

文章蘇子 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 2:08 am

viaviavia 寫:我想請問一件事,SRC 能讓聲音爛到什麼程度?

我想請問當初一直說 SRC 有多可怕的人,給我測試數據跟
頻率圖表,既然你說爛,證明出來給大家看一下。 :D

小弟只是個晚輩而不是當初那些人,
也實在給不出測試數據跟頻率圖表 :aa:
我自己的耳朵是覺得如果SRC品質不錯的話應該是聽不出差別吧,
現在有foobar等軟體,
SRC應該不用視為可怕的東西,
但是對那些人而言我覺得"心情問題"才是主因吧
蘇子
SR40
SR40
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週日 11月 16, 2003 2:56 am

文章蘇子 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 2:11 am

MoLtoSoLo 寫:Chaintech AV710 的 Driver 可以 bypass SRC, 不是問題.

感謝指教 :bow:
想請問一下這張卡的24/192是在何種輸出入下時使用呢?
蘇子
SR40
SR40
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週日 11月 16, 2003 2:56 am

文章viaviavia 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 2:31 am

我不是在說蘇子兄啦。

只是當初說 SRC 爛的人,都說不清楚 SRC 會有多大的影響
時,然後把所有不滿意的結果都歸給 SRC 這部分,我就覺得
這種想法簡直跟「山海經」說的一樣了。 :eeh:

ps. 山海經是中國第一部有系統寫下所有神怪現象的古籍。
討論音效卡改裝的網站

http://www.gen6991.idv.tw/
頭像
viaviavia
友站的站老大
友站的站老大
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週五 9月 12, 2003 4:46 am
來自: 高雄

文章MoLtoSoLo 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 4:01 am

音效卡的好壞不全都是一個晶片的結果, 還包括了電源, 類比輸出, 數
位線路的設計等等.

在選擇 HQ output 的時候就可以有 24/96的輸出.

至於為什麼我不喜歡 SRC, 是因為經過實驗後發現, SRC 會改變音樂
訊號. 我不知道是好是壞, 但是我只是想要原來的 data, 不多一點也不少一點.
J@ck 將是我的新名字, 將於二月份新年後開始使用.
頭像
MoLtoSoLo
SR40
SR40
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週一 2月 10, 2003 11:30 am

文章kaylen 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 8:29 am

viaviavia 寫:我不是在說蘇子兄啦。

只是當初說 SRC 爛的人,都說不清楚 SRC 會有多大的影響
時,然後把所有不滿意的結果都歸給 SRC 這部分,我就覺得
這種想法簡直跟「山海經」說的一樣了。 :eeh:

ps. 山海經是中國第一部有系統寫下所有神怪現象的古籍。


個人第一次看到SRC的問題是在DearHoney站長文章中見到的,
當時他有提供相關的測試圖表,因為我對這方面是外行所以看不懂,
或許您可以和他討論相關的問題。 :)
kaylen
SR125
SR125
 
文章: 504
註冊時間: 週五 2月 16, 2001 6:21 pm
來自: 台北的角落

文章Kotosuke 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 10:59 am

ENVY24HT-S本來就是ENVY24HT的COST DOWN版本吧…?!
記得內部有精簡一些功能。

=====================
BTW,SRC的影響真的很不小。
在我的XFIRE1024改上,開SSRC跟不開SSRC(變CS4624內部SRC)
SSRC高頻較亮,而CS4624則聽感較暗許多,非常明顯。
即使CS4624的SRC非常優秀,但與SSRC的差異還是有一截。
個人是相當不看一般好普通音效卡的HW SRC,演算法大多不夠細緻。
當然也有性能優異的HW SRC,像AD/CS/BB都有…但價格和實用性嘛… :roll: :roll: :eeh:
SW SRC雖然效率差了些,但效果的確是一般HW SRC望其項背。

SRC的差異比較,請看日本大大(真的很強 :o )efuイモ的網頁
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/fa/efu/fsconv/fsconv.html

看到圖就算聽不出來,心理作用都出來了。 :D
頭像
Kotosuke
SR125
SR125
 
文章: 440
註冊時間: 週一 1月 14, 2002 9:59 am
來自: 中部

文章viaviavia 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 12:25 pm

聲音被改變了之後,比較明顯的高頻會比較容易被察覺,
這樣的改變是好還是壞?

當初 peter 寫的 ssrc 的原始碼裡面有提了一下,不同的
計算模式會有不同的聲音,跟不同的 cpu 運算需求,既
然只要改變一下計算模式,就讓聲音作出不小的變化,那
麼哪一個才是真正正確的呢?

聲音這東西很奇妙,資料在一定程度之內變動,你絕不會
把張三的聲音聽成是李四的聲音,只會感覺張三李四是不
是感冒了,或是更精神了。

看到這樣的過程跟結果,與其計較 SRC 或 SSRC 是不是
絕對正確,或是引許 SRC 被改變而造出我們更能接受的
聲音,哪一個比較有意義?

另外,提到 SRC 的字眼的,在晶片廠商的技術文件裡面
都有寫到,crystal 是寫得最複雜完整的,只是台灣沒有
作者去寫到這一塊。 :mad:
討論音效卡改裝的網站

http://www.gen6991.idv.tw/
頭像
viaviavia
友站的站老大
友站的站老大
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週五 9月 12, 2003 4:46 am
來自: 高雄

文章andy236 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 12:54 pm

基本上hi-fi是高傳真,
在高傳真的定義下,當然沒改變的比較好
至於好不好聽那又是另一回事
宇宙最窮的電腦軟體人,現在只想好好聽音樂 閉關中
頭像
andy236
論壇顧問
論壇顧問
 
文章: 1909
註冊時間: 週三 12月 13, 2000 9:46 pm
來自: 天上山下

文章viaviavia 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 1:27 pm

最好的狀況是分別有 44.1K 48k 96k 等等的 dac 硬體區塊
存在,不必用數學計算去轉換,只是廠商大概不會幹這種
吃力不討好的事。

但是呢,就算有各自對應的 dac 區塊,每個晶片設計方式
所造成的聲音差異,又會變成討論的焦點,簡直是無法停
止的羅生門啊,呵呵。 :D

stereo sound 那位已經遠去的前輩常常說的,我只是在重
播一個藝術傳達的氣氛,加上我對這個藝術的認知,最後
出來的聲音則是我和演唱者的心靈作用的產品,很有深度
的一段話,雖然這位老前輩有時候會寫錯硬體部分的解析
,嘿嘿,但是我個人很贊同老前輩對重播一個藝術的想法。
討論音效卡改裝的網站

http://www.gen6991.idv.tw/
頭像
viaviavia
友站的站老大
友站的站老大
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週五 9月 12, 2003 4:46 am
來自: 高雄

文章andy236 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 1:36 pm

對Audio已經放棄研究了
其實也沒什麼研究能力 :mad:

結論
在能力範圍內弄或買自己喜歡的聲音
辨別不出來挑便宜好看的
價位差不多只好找損友一起聽聽給建議,最起碼以後出什麼問題還有個替罪羊 :D
宇宙最窮的電腦軟體人,現在只想好好聽音樂 閉關中
頭像
andy236
論壇顧問
論壇顧問
 
文章: 1909
註冊時間: 週三 12月 13, 2000 9:46 pm
來自: 天上山下

文章Kotosuke 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 1:52 pm

viaviavia 寫:聲音被改變了之後,比較明顯的高頻會比較容易被察覺,
這樣的改變是好還是壞?


這沒所謂好壞。
一個合理的SRC,轉換後的結果,應該是要逼近轉換前,不是嗎?

viaviavia 寫:當初 peter 寫的 ssrc 的原始碼裡面有提了一下,不同的
計算模式會有不同的聲音,跟不同的 cpu 運算需求,既
然只要改變一下計算模式,就讓聲音作出不小的變化,那
麼哪一個才是真正正確的呢?


你確定"SSRC"是"peter"寫的? :o
會有劇烈變化表是這SRC不成熟。

viaviavia 寫:聲音這東西很奇妙,資料在一定程度之內變動,你絕不會
把張三的聲音聽成是李四的聲音,只會感覺張三李四是不
是感冒了,或是更精神了。


是沒錯,但合理的「SRC」,
要的是張三聽起來像張三,而不是感冒的張三。

viaviavia 寫:看到這樣的過程跟結果,與其計較 SRC 或 SSRC 是不是
絕對正確,或是引許 SRC 被改變而造出我們更能接受的
聲音,哪一個比較有意義?


您覺得感冒(或比較有精神)的張三比較好聽,那當然也是可以。

viaviavia 寫:另外,提到 SRC 的字眼的,在晶片廠商的技術文件裡面
都有寫到,crystal 是寫得最複雜完整的,只是台灣沒有
作者去寫到這一塊。 :mad:


而事實上,不管任何SRC,「轉換」就是一種「嚴重」的失真。
頭像
Kotosuke
SR125
SR125
 
文章: 440
註冊時間: 週一 1月 14, 2002 9:59 am
來自: 中部

文章viaviavia 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 1:57 pm

peter 也是去參考人家的東西寫的啊,只是 peter 提到的
那個人的網頁,當時就消失了哩。

>> 而事實上,不管任何SRC,「轉換」就是一種「嚴重」
>> 的失真。

我就是要說這一點,被你直接說出來了,嘿嘿。 :D
討論音效卡改裝的網站

http://www.gen6991.idv.tw/
頭像
viaviavia
友站的站老大
友站的站老大
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週五 9月 12, 2003 4:46 am
來自: 高雄

文章andy236 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 2:03 pm

請問什麼叫"「嚴重」的失真"?
那是否有 "「不嚴重」的失真"?
如果有"「不嚴重」的失真",那兩者如何區分?
宇宙最窮的電腦軟體人,現在只想好好聽音樂 閉關中
頭像
andy236
論壇顧問
論壇顧問
 
文章: 1909
註冊時間: 週三 12月 13, 2000 9:46 pm
來自: 天上山下

文章viaviavia 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 2:06 pm

我忽然想到以前在雜誌社工作,老闆交代過的一句話。

觀察不同結果的過程,跟研究那個過程是不同境界的,讀者
要的是觀察的結果,因為那個最有用處的。

所以把討論導引到討論演算法,好像是我的錯喔,呵呵。 :mad:
討論音效卡改裝的網站

http://www.gen6991.idv.tw/
頭像
viaviavia
友站的站老大
友站的站老大
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週五 9月 12, 2003 4:46 am
來自: 高雄

文章Kotosuke 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 2:06 pm

andy236 寫:請問什麼叫"「嚴重」的失真"?
那是否有 "「不嚴重」的失真"?
如果有"「不嚴重」的失真",那兩者如何區分?


A TO D,算不算是「嚴重」?
我覺得算,因為「已經不是原本的東西」了!

然後…同理可證 :ho:
至於要怎麼界定…看個人 :ale:
最後由 Kotosuke 於 週三 6月 16, 2004 2:14 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
頭像
Kotosuke
SR125
SR125
 
文章: 440
註冊時間: 週一 1月 14, 2002 9:59 am
來自: 中部

文章viaviavia 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 2:09 pm

就數學領域來說,把結果計算成偏離原來的波形越遠,到底
能不能算失真?我也不知道耶,呵呵。 :ho:

就聽覺經驗來講,我會選好聽的那一個來用,正不正確或
是失真有多大,我大概會忘了去想。 :roll:
討論音效卡改裝的網站

http://www.gen6991.idv.tw/
頭像
viaviavia
友站的站老大
友站的站老大
 
文章: 0
註冊時間: 週五 9月 12, 2003 4:46 am
來自: 高雄

文章andy236 發表於 週三 6月 16, 2004 2:15 pm

Kotosuke 寫:A TO D,算不算是「嚴重」?
我覺得算,因為「已經不是原本的東西」了!

然後…同理可證 :ho:
至於要怎麼介定…看個人 :ale:

原來如此
那我認為
而事實上,不管任何SRC,「轉換」就是一種「不嚴重」的失真

對我而言
經費多會買不過SRC的卡
經費少只好買過SRC的卡
很窮,其實on board也不錯,起碼還有聲音

走了,bye bye
宇宙最窮的電腦軟體人,現在只想好好聽音樂 閉關中
頭像
andy236
論壇顧問
論壇顧問
 
文章: 1909
註冊時間: 週三 12月 13, 2000 9:46 pm
來自: 天上山下

下一頁

回到 音響系統討論版

誰在線上

正在瀏覽這個版面的使用者:沒有註冊會員 和 101 位訪客